This episode kinda made me feel this angry.
I could yap about the mystery of the week and rail about Paris Hilton touching MY Jensen for a few paragraphs but that would be pointless. Because really, that wasn’t what mattered (although I do hope that Jensen disinfected after shooting) this episode. I thought about titling this blog Sammy Steps Up because it was all about Sam trying to take back some power.
I am not on board with Sam blaming any part of his decision making on Dean; Sam is a big boy and he’s always been driven by either a thirst for revenge, a thirst for power or just a desire to be different from his family. We saw that from first episode when he pointed out how different he wanted to be from his brother and his father. This is nothing new with Sam, it’s been that way since we’ve known him. Did John and Dean shape that? Sure, but even after he broke away he still had this drive to prove himself that had nothing to do with them.
I will, however, give credence to the fact that Dean has coddled Sam from day one and that did contribute to his desire to have some power and control in his life. He just chose the way of getting that very badly.
Not sure how I feel about Sam after this episode.
If I am to give allowances to Sam’s behaviors based upon his brother and father’s actions, though, shouldn’t Sam do the same thing for Dean? Dean has been raised from the time he was 4 years old to protect Sam. That was his number one job from the moment that Azazel took their mother. It was how he was raised, drummed into his head over and over by an overbearing, controlling, distracted father. Big brother is to look out for little brother and that’s what Dean has always done.
I’m not saying that Dean shouldn’t have loosened the reins on his brother, I’m just saying that he had his reasons for not doing so and it’s pretty hard for him to change that behavior, especially now. He clearly wasn’t being overly controlling of Sam last season when he sneaked away with Ruby…if anything Dean could argue that he should have kept a shorter leash on Sam and it might not have happened.
How many fantasies got started from this scene?
Is it just me or did this episode seem to serve as a big “Look at Sam, he’s the smart one, Dean’s lazy and avoiding the real work” type of episode that we used to be exposed to so often in season 1 and 2? The whole episode felt like a flashback to those times anyway…Dean was the bossy bully and Sam figured everything out while Dean just goofed around and got sarcastic. I didn’t care for it at all, even though the episode itself was fine.
Sam walking in on Dean’s conversation with Bobby, wherein he basically blamed him for the apocalypse, was just a set up for the other two major talks the brothers had. Sam wanted to talk about it but Dean continued to blow him off, just as he’s done all season when Sam tried to apologize. Some would construe that as solely being about Dean’s anger but I choose to think there’s more to it than that and their final conversation gave that some merit. Sam took responsibility for starting the apocalypse again and Dean pointed out that he broke the first seal himself. Sam said you didn’t know and Dean said neither did you. That was his acceptance that though Sam was partially responsible, he didn’t know what he was doing just as Dean didn’t when he started things either. Dean made Sam come to that realization about himself as well and the blame game seems to be over.
Let me focus back on that second conversation for a minute. I did like that Sam told Dean that he didn’t want to go back to the way things were because that is what led them to where they are now. I always say that about having regrets, there’s really not a point because whatever decisions you made then led to who you are now. I don’t mind Sam stepping up and taking more of a leadership role but he needs to know that comes with taking responsibility for his actions. He said he does but he still mentions his brother’s own culpability in his choices and honestly, he can’t do that if he wants to be a leader. He needs to own his own actions…he says he does but if he really did would he say that Dean’s treatment of him led to his choices? Isn’t it true that Sam made his choices BEFORE Dean even got back from hell? He was already using the mojo then, after all, and becoming addicted to the power. So there’s a lot more to it than just “Dean didn’t let me make any decisions” situation.
The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am getting at the way this episode portrayed the brothers. Like Dean was the puppet master or something? I don’t know. It’s bothering me more as I write about it. rameau, I need you to weigh in and tell me if I’m going way off base here in what was mostly a light episode cause I am working myself up a bit! hehe
I guess I don’t mind Dean apologizing for being too overbearing with Sam but I’d like Sam saying he was sorry for the crappy way he treated his brother last year as well. Dean letting Sam drive the Impala was a signal of the trust being back on his end and I’m good with that, though I think Sam has more earning to do. I guess the writer’s don’t though, this seemed to be their way of reestablishing Sam as the good and just brother. Scenes for future episodes have me interested, as always (particularly in that scene where Dean is in sunglasses, yum!), but this episode was not anywhere near my favorite after a few stellar ones. The brothers are back together and we’ll see how it goes.
PS Just wanted to thank BuddyTV for pointing my little blog out to people, this is officially my biggest blog day yet and I know it’s thanks to Buddy’s tweet. All you SPN fans, thanks for coming by, I talk about every episode and hope you all come back for more, would love to discuss with you. Thanks to the new people who have commented, I love it!
As my mistress commands, but let me get something out of my system first okay?
I just made a comment in Aja’s blog about the production team, writers and the actors playing different tunes or the same melody just not at same time. They’re out of sync. It’s like watching your favourite band come undone after four best selling albums and crashing and burning because they are just ripping off their own best singles. Seriously, they need new material. That being said.
Paul McGillion! Oh, how I wish he’d used his daddy’s Scottish accent but I’ll take what I can get.
And Dean’s/Jensen’s face around that car? Priceless. Too bad my daydreams ended there because Paris Hilton ruined the bondage fantasies for me. She actually made Dean unlikeable and that is unacceptable. That click-wink was just too much for me.
This episode did seem like a flashback to the Sam and Dean early years on the road. Sam gladly took his place by the computer while Dean made his way to the bar for a drink. But there were two computers, Dean was working on the case too, and on a completely shallow note: Was it Jensen portraying James Dean?
In the beginning, I got the feeling that Sam was portrayed as the childish, impatient and petulant one while Dean was being mature and patient, saying that they need to learn to work together again. It was like Sam was looking for the words but didn’t find them until later while Dean took action like he always does but was actually trying to do the same thing; trying to find a way for them to work as a team again. They may not agree on the methods or the emphasis but they definitely agreed on the goal. And what was it with that sad music during their initial discussion? Burying their past perhaps?
You are right about Dean being trained to take care of his brother and keep him safe at all cost, but even without the extreme circumstances, Sam luv, Dean will ALWAYS be your big brother and he won’t stop worrying or trying to protect you. However, Sam was right about Dean needing to learn to trust in him again and letting him grow up. But you were also right about Dean having done that already. Last year, Dean relinquished control and tried to play nice with Ruby for Sam’s sake: Look at how that turned out.
Sam did indeed make his choices while Dean was in hell but he also made the choice to keep those choices, some of them, secret and continue his illicit ways after Dean got back. Didn’t Dean try to tell Sam that he’s back and there’s no reason to go after Lilith the way he was going?
Though both of them took responsibility and Sam took his first steps towards self-sufficiency, it was like watching a toddler taking his first wobbly steps across the room: He’s bound to fall down on his ass before he gets across and he should feel damn lucky to have Dean there to help him back on his feet.
I don’t think that the episode portrayed Dean as the master puppet but it did portray Sam thinking that of his brother.
The writers may feel that this was enough to restore the original set up for the boys and make Sam look like the righteous one again, it wasn’t. For one, we know otherwise. Cas explained that the righteous man will break the seal and he’ll also end the apocalypse and that would be Dean. But this season is unlike any other SPN seasons, I don’t know what to expect. They simply aren’t telling us enough to justify and explain these steps the characters take and it feels like Kripke is deliberately holding back his cards. Probably because he hasn’t got that many left and he wants to save them for the big finale. Sorry, rewriting season four to keep the show in the air meant that they should also rewrite season five too. Not completely, but just a little so they’d have enough material for how many episodes there will be this year.
My head is starting to hurt and I do need to think about this a little more, maybe even visit TWoP for some inspiration even if I don’t have the time.
But one thing that made me wonder about the astuteness of the writers were the fallen heroes of the boys. Gandhi? Seriously. And not because he was a small man who ate only fruit but because it doesn’t make sense. Not too long ago, Sam was aspiring to be anything but like his father only to grow-down to want to be exactly like John Winchester. Now he’s changed his hero again? When will he admit that it’s his big brother he admires? Sam, be honest, you want to be exactly like Dean, or like the man Dean would be had he been given the chance for a normal life and had their mothers legacy dictated their lives. And Dean’s? John? Really? Sure, Dean admired his father his whole life but he also grew out of it. He found a better father figure for himself in Bobby. The writers might have had a certain message in mind while plotting for this episode but the writing failed to convey it. Think along the lines of Route 666 or the episode where they had Sam call Dean a dick a little too profusely. It was true but it also missed the point.
It looks like we’ll be expecting more humour to fill the gaps of mytharc. And though I’d love to play Dean for years (not years he’ll lose of his life but the years he’ll be speding with me) I’m not particularly anxious to see the next episode, nor were I with this one after I learned that stick-figure would be appearing. And that is a sad, sad thing to say about this show I, used to, adore.
I sorta feel like I’m the only one who is sympathetic towards Sam! LOL! I guess I am though because although you are right in saying Dean was raised to protect Sam at all costs, Sam was raised to be the one who is always protected. In a way, neither really had a choice in their family roles as that’s how it was from the very beginning. But you guys are right in saying that Dean DID let Sam go last season and I forgot to take that into consideration when writing my post. It now seems that no matter what Dean does, Sam makes mistakes. But maybe we have to look at Sam as the literal “baby brother.” Even though he’s a grown man who can make his own choices, “young ‘uns” make mistakes all the time. It’s a part of growing up and learning. Dean had to grow up as soon as he was given the responsibility of looking after Sam. Sam is just starting now. I don’t think either brother should be blamed for how either of them turned out. To solely blame Dean on Sam’s reckless behavior is unfair. I think Dean is slowly learning to trust Sam and to let him take the lead sometimes. Time will only tell when Sam will learn he’s his own person even when he’s with Dean.
Like I said in an earlier post of mine, when Sam and Dean were arguing (last season) about Sam drinking demon blood, Dean didn’t get mad at Sam because he expected it. Sam’s clear reaction was disappointment that Dean didn’t get mad. It’s as if he NEEDED Dean to control him because without that, Sam wouldn’t know what to do with himself. So I think Sam puts out this front that he hates being Dean’s little brother but on the inside, he needs that connection to feel secure and comforted. He’s basically using Dean as his excuse for being reckless.
But this goes back to my sympathy. Addiction and what happens in our childhood makes us crazy sometimes. I have to feel sympathy for Sam and hope that this whole experience will make him humble and more wise in the future.
See, that’s the thing…I think the writers wanted us to see this as the perfect resolution. Sam was at fault but so was Dean so we’re even so let’s move on. And I’m sorry but it’s just not that simple. I admit that Sam pissed me off last year and I think it might be irrevocably. Not because of the addiction but because of the view he had of his brother. Dean was “weak” remember? And now Sam wants some control and I can’t help but wonder if part of that is that “weakness” that he claimed to see in Dean all year long, which was also prior to the blood addiction if I recall correctly.
I agreed with some of what Sam said, that he needs to grow up and take care of himself. That could not be more true. And while the boys need to have a partnership, I still think one of them needs to be the leader and I’m sorry but that is Dean. The fact that Sam is meant to wear the devil alone makes me think Dean should be calling the majority of the shots.
Aja, I agree with you that by telling Zach to fuck off, Dean has managed to change the destiny he saw last week. But the devil is still coming for Sam and the angels are still coming for Dean and I think they definitely need to be together to battle that out.
I would have sympathy for Sam if he had not belittled his brother constantly last season. I really think that’s the issue I just cannot get beyond. I want to hear Sam tell Dean that he was completely in the wrong when he thought he was weak and that he’s truly the strongest man he knows. Like rameau said, I think Sam’s real idol is Dean and they should have shown that. I also agree that John is no longer Dean’s idol, that rubbed me the wrong way too but I was too busy being irritated by the Sam stuff to comment on it properly.
I really hope the writers don’t think that they’re “done” with the brother conflict. It felt like they did which is why I was so irritated by this episode. If it had run in season 1 or 2 I wouldn’t have batted an eyelash and probably would have laughed along at all the jokes. I liked the ending, with Dean letting Sam have the keys to his baby, I just don’t feel that Sam has really earned them yet. And I really do want to see Sam’s addiction come back into play, see the struggle and see him actually turn to Dean for help. I think that’s truly what I need to be okay with Sam again.
[…] Fallen Idols « The Three S’s: Sports, Shows & Sarcasm nolebucgrl.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/fallen-idols – view page – cached I could yap about the mystery of the week and rail about Paris Hilton touching MY Jensen for a few paragraphs but that would be pointless. — From the page […]
This is the first time i’ve come across a page where the comments are longer than the actual article…
Ha! Welcome hellboy. And yeah, we go tend to get chatty back here, but it’s cool. The comments get me thinking and then I have to write more, always a good thing.
Aja, you probably are the only on on Sam’s side, of us three right now. And though I can understand your point of view and sympathising with Sam, I also feel like you want to cuddle his character. It’s like you are doing exactly what Sam blames Dean doing, holding him back and keeping him as a child when all he wants to do is to grow up. Rationally you may know that he needs to grow up and be his own man, but emotionally you just want to cuddle him and keep him safe and make sure no harm comes to him. Which is fine for fictional character; I have those feelings about Dean all the time too, but I also want him to grow as an individual while I stand back and watch him do it all by himself… my mind really needs to come out of the gutter now.
Nole, I hope you are wrong about this being the perfect resolution for the brothers. I can see why you would think that and how the writers could want that, but I want you to be wrong. Kripke hasn’t wiped the slate clean and forgotten everything he’s done these past four years, the journey these characters have gone through and he’s not about to forget all the obstacles they still need to overcome. Or lets hope that.
Sam’s character is all over the place. It’s like he’s going through all the stages of a delayed puberty in mixed order. At times he’s acting like a petulant child, other times like a young adult about to go out to the world on his own only to fall back to his teenage rebellion
I don’t remember if Sam calling Dean weak started before the addiction but I do think they were revealed in that order and I do think it was part of the process of becoming an adult. Unfortunately Sam chose the wrong way to go about it, again. Last year he truly was testing his limits and hoping that Dean would set them for him, when Dean finally decided to treat Sam as the adult he claimed to be he ended up failing his little brother. So now Dean is calling the shots and Sam’s on probation and this is a problem for Sam? Dean can’t possibly blame Sam as much as he blames himself so Dean should just forgive and forget? Why? Because it’s insignificant compared to the self-assigned guilt? How would that even the score? Dean has every right to be upset and Sam has to work dam hard to earn his trust back. They can’t just bury this.
Even if this were a democracy, Sam hasn’t learned his right to vote yet. The keys at the end of the episode, it was a test. I doubt Dean slept at all even if he pretended to.
Which reminds me of how cute and poignant the scene with the fake Little Bastard was in the beginning. Dean worshipped that car and he wouldn’t let Sam touch it. Maybe that was a sign of over-protectiveness or it could also have been a sign of the lack of trust. And by the end of the episode Dean was testing that trust, trying to extent it to someone who hasn’t earned it yet.
I know I’m rambling, but I’m truly frustrated with this show right now. If I weren’t weeks behind with my other shows, I would be rewatching seasons 2 and 3 right now and trying to untangle this mess. But no, I have too much to do, too much to read, too much to write and too much to watch as is.
P.S. Sorry about the typo’s in this and in the earlier comment.
hellboy, you should have seen us last year if you think we are chatty now.
okay its gonna take me some time to read through this but i have a question for rameau. What do you mean about the production team et all being on a different page from the actors? or the characters? Do you mean with all this fan service? I think you have a point, I’d just like to hear more about that. Or link me to where you were talking about that before.
rameau, I hope that I am wrong too it’s just that that was the overwhelming feeling I got from watching the episode. Well, that and irritation as you can plainly see. I do think there will be more testing for Sam (and I really do hope by some blood again) but it felt like they had Dean acknowledge his part in the starting of everything and Sam acknowledge his and both of them agree that neither of them meant to start it and that was that.
I really both liked and hated Dean’s comment to Bobby on the phone. Hated it because it seemed too flip for me but liked that he was still holding his brother responsible in a way and commenting on Sam’s desire to kick some ass again. Because lets’ face it, whenever Sammy got in that mode, it was usually because he was on his “revenge” kick. So Dean can and should be watching out for that because of what it does to Sam.
I often want to cuddle Dean so I can also relate to that! hehe
I, too, loved Dean’s face when it came to Little Bastard and thought his not letting Sam touch it was one part protection if it was haunted and another part pure Dean car love. So cute. And it was a good parallel to the final scene. I also don’t think Dean slept a wink with Sam at the controls of his baby, it just wouldn’t be in his nature!
PS I love that you left that long comment as I was posting hellboys comments on the length of our comments. And you’re right, last years comments blew this years out of the water. Hehe
DB and her tough questions. I’ve so wanted to comment on your new blog but since I’m forever lagging with my shows I haven’t been able to. Sorry.
I made the comment in Aja’s blog entry:
http://samanddean.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/thats-hot/#comments
But I don’t think that’s going to help you much.
I think I mean that while trying to understand why this season of SPN seems to be lacking, I’ve come up with several theories. You may see it differently, but I do think that the choices they made last year are the reason why this season of SPN isn’t working for me. Remember Babylon 5? It had a similar fate. The network was about to cancel the show after season four so the creator filled that season with all the material he absolutely wanted to get out and ended up having only a skeleton for the fifth season. They needed new material to fill the episodes. Maybe time has worked it’s magic, but I truly feel that Michael Straczynski succeeded better than Kripke has thus far.
Last year could have been the last year of SPN but it wasn’t. Kripke had filled the season with angels and all the mythology he wanted to get out there and the episodes rocked pretty much always topping the previous ones because there was an over-abundance of material they were working with. They were trying to stuff two seasons into one. It worked and the show lived to see another year. Now they have to work with the left overs without giving up the big finale too soon. Too bad it’s not enough to fill the episodes so they look for humour as their saviour. An occasional humour episode in the past has been a welcomed respite from all the drama and tragedy but now everything is soaked with appropriate and inappropriate humour. Writers fail to say what they want or need to say will all the irrelevant information clogging us up.
The characters already went through all the needed stages last year, now they need to backtrack and dance around making new trails around the ones already there. Kripke has a plan he’s sticking to and he’s probably not giving enough material or inspiration for the scriptwriters to deal with. Scriptwriters want to get the message across but fail either because they don’t know what they should be saying or how to say it without saying too much or how to make it fresh and new and different from last season. The actors are trying to show a steady growth in their characters but considering what they’ve portrayed so far and what they are dealing with now, the material is contradictory at times.
Does this make any sense to you now?
Nole, I forgot to mention about the phone call to Bobby. I was half expecting Dean to confess to Sam that he was actually blaming himself because the wording was something like: “And we know who’s to blame.” Because Dean knows he started it. He may not have known at the time but he knows now and being the big brother he is, he feels responsible for so many things. For dying and going to hell and breaking the seal for starters. For letting Sam to take that path to his destruction and breaking of the last seal and for so many other reasons. But if Dean truly was blaming Sam and joking about it with Bobby, that makes him more cold and more like the Dean Zach showed him than the fact that he wants to lead and keep Sam’s leash tight.
See, I think that’s what they were going for though. It felt like they were, as you said, shoving the characters back into their season 1 and 2 roles instead of showing the growth. The Dean I know wouldn’t be making commentary like that but it felt like that’s what they were going for. What I’m saying, and I should have just said it in the first place, is that this episode felt like a giant asskiss for Sam and Sam fans that felt like he got demonized last year. Let’s show the fans that Sam is really “good” and Dean is still often a “dick”. That’s how I took it anyway, maybe I wasn’t supposed to but that’s what it felt like to me.
Ok, this is the first time I’ve ever commented on something Supernatural related and I’m a little scared of the backlash but here we go:
“I think Sam has more earning to do. I guess the writer’s don’t though”
Just because Sam got to drive the Impala and the two of them talked about their feelings, that in no way means that the writers have resolved the conflict between them. From the episodes screened so far this season, I got the impression that Sam’s whole character arc this season is about him seeking redemption. It might have been tied up in a temporary way so they could end the episode but there’s no way it’s been resolved for good. Have a little faith. You could have made the same comment at the end of the previous episode where Dean gave Sam the knife after they met up again. These are ways to show that some kind of progress is being made in their relationship, not that it’s fixed and better again.
Have no fear of backlash, Karmabelle. I do hope you are correct, I just felt like the whole episode was about Sam being wonderful again. I don’t want him to be forgiven that easily and hope it is about baby steps, I truly do. I just felt like they were a bit heavy-handed in their message this time out, whereas with the knife it was subtle. I do have some faith in Kripke, he hasn’t really let me down to this point yet, I just didn’t like the overall tone to the episode at all.
Thank you for commenting and feel free to comment any time at all, it’s good to get differing opinions and you gave me some hope that maybe I overreacted. It won’t be the first time, believe me!
I understand completely when you say this episode felt like a sop to the Samgirls. Dean was overbearing and harsh in a way we’ve never seen before. Yes, in the past he’s clearly been in charge, but it was always natural and easygoing, not rub Sam’s face in it. It was clear that all of those scenes were just set up for Sam to complain that he deserved some say in making decisions, which was not a good reason for making Dean look like a jerk.
I was very relieved to see Dean with his own laptop helping out with the research. I DO NOT want to see a return to S2 and early S3 when Dean was portrayed as a brainless thug with a gun, incapable of finding or surviving a hunt without Sam to guide him.
Though Dean was right that they are both responsible for what happened, I personally hold Sam a teensy bit more accountable. He had a lot more options than Dean, and continued to do things he shouldn’t even after Dean came back. That said, they both need to accept their responsibilty and move on. I’m with you that I hope they don’t just gloss this over, because I think Sam in particular still has a lot to make up for. Hopefully they will find a way to balance everything and give us a great finale.
Welcome Kelios! Yes, that is it exactly. They really made Dean look like an ass during much of the episode and I think that’s probably what I hated so much even though I couldn’t articulate it properly. They don’t need to make Dean look bad in order to make Sam look better. He just needs to be remorseful, which he is, and show Dean and the rest of us that he’s back to being the Sam who had his brother’s back the first 3 seasons. Not to harp on it but I really need to hear him acknowledge that his brother is anything but weak. If you take a look at some of my SPN blogs from last year you’ll see that that pissed me off like nothing else on this show.
I do, despite my irritation, have faith that this year can and will be quite good. I just need to continue to see that Sam is sorry and not have him point a finger at Dean for the choices he made. If he wants to be a leader, that’s great, but own what he did and don’t place any of it on his brother’s shoulders, Dean places enough there without assistance from Sam.
Thanks for joining us and I hope you’ll be back to discuss more, I love talking SPN!
Interesting observations. I agree that Sam still has a lot more trust-earning yet to do, but I’m glad Dean is beginning to trust him again. I guess I always knew that this whole ordeal would happen eventually, since it wouldn’t be much of a show without the two main characters turning on each other at some point. But I’d been dreading it, because personally I favored the old school hunting episodes where the show was focused on the bonding of the two brothers.
Since this episode was a sort of fallback to those old school ones I always loved, I had more of an appreciation for it. Unfortunately, it wasn’t all that familiar because Sam and Dean are at odds now and there’s a hell of a lot more fighting going on. In some ways, I just want them to make up and go back to the way things were, but that’s most likely not going to happen.
I do agree that Sam needs to take responsibility for his choices in life. If he’s going to be constantly blaming his addiction to demon blood and the decision to betray Dean for Ruby on his upbringing and other people, whether consciously or unconsciously, he isn’t ready to lead anything.
Thanks for commenting, telturwen! And welcome. I agree, I don’t mind Dean giving Sam some trust, it just felt a little too neat to me. I would have liked maybe for him to ponder what Sam said in this episode and maybe next week offer him the olive branch of driving the car or something. It felt a little rushed to me and at the time I wrote the blog I was rather annoyed with Sam. A little time and distance has calmed me down some and I do still have faith in the writers that they’ll get it right.
I like an old school episode now and then as well and I like that they’re trying to incorporate some of the new in with the old, by bringing in the tension. We’ll see if that dissipates over the next few episodes or not.
I’m glad you agree about the responsibility thing. I don’t mind Sam bringing Dean’s attention to his controlling nature in their relationship at all but to try to blame that on the decisions he made was ludicrous. Especially because he made several of those decisions while Dean was still in hell for all of eternity for all Sam knew! That’s what really set me off…hopefully he recognizes that he needs to own his actions and doesn’t lay any blame on his brother. They cleared the air on the fault situation at the end there so let that be the end of that portion of things!